News from CES


  • Member
    Anonymous on #134

    Some of the news from CES was bad: Steve Witt of Alpine, who knows tons about the market, said that mobile electronics sales were down 10% in each of the last three years. Bummer.

    But companies showed cool products….. products that integrated aftermarket electronics with OEM, with iPods, with satellite radio, even satellite TV.

    New sub technology from Alpine and Eclipse…. and a transmission-line sub from American Bass.

    Incredible system from JBL; the Fix8, which includes Logic 7 technology… incredible performance for a low cost.

    Rockford Fosgate had two cool products: a 15,000-watt amp and a DSP integrator that does EQ through a Palm.

    More later if anyone is interested…..


    Member
    ballasnt on #2326

    I would be interested. 🙂

    What is this new technology from Eclipse?


    Member
    Anonymous on #2327

    This is what Eclipse says: “Linear motor technology that helps minimize the voice coil’s internal loss and provides a significiant gain in rated input value….. by shaping the turn distribution of a wire coil a more optimal force linearity can be achieved…. allows greater linearity in the motor’s [?] peak-to-peak travel, reducing distortion for better-sounding low frequencies.”

    The picture in their catalog seems to show a voice coil with single-layer windings in the middle 50% and double-layer windings at each end (25% each end). Tom Nousaine pointed out that the gap needs to be greater to accommodate the double-layer windings.

    I was thinking that the coils COULD be wound tightly at each end and loosely in the middle so the gap would not have to be greater.

    This MIGHT be similar to a TC Sounds technology; I saw Thilo Stompler at CES and got tech info from him. If you give me a fax number, I could fax you that info. Nousaine and I think Thilo knows his Vas from his Ass.


    Member
    dB on #2328

    That is actually John J’s design and idea.

    Thilo and John were talking about methods to reduce BL variation after Adire began doing their hogged out top plate – short coil motors.

    John came up with the LMT idea, and FEA’d it several years back. He shared the FEA with Thilo. Ooops.

    Thilo has since run with it. T.Cc Sounds is Eclipse’s large woofer supplier – so yes it’s similar to TC Sounds technology – it IS theirs. Or Johns. Or well you get the idea 🙂

    Biggest problem with the idea is how much electromotive force is lost throwing away the on center peak – and the enormous changes in inductance as the coil never has the same ammount of copper in the gap.

    You guys will likely LOVE our take on flat BL motors.. We’ll have to be sure to patent it before someone else rips us off though.


    Member
    Anonymous on #2329

    Thanks for the info!!!!!!!!!!!

    May I ask who John J is?

    Whoever he is, I’m impressed.

    So there are theoretical advantages and disadvantages…. who has actually tested one of the speakers?


    Member
    dB on #2330

    John is my business partner – the other half and origionator of A.E. Speakers..

    All tests on the driver are proprietary and the manufacturer makes people who buy it sign an agreement not to let the actual test results be released. They do this because fo the exceptionally high Qt of the driver.


    Member
    Nousaine on #2331

    FWIW the Alpine woofer technology is an asdaptation of the Kantor/Tymphany LAT woofer shown at the AES Convention in late 2004.

    It uses 2 moving coil motors at each end of a tubular chassis that has 6 5″ or 7″ cones facing each other of which each alternating cone is attached to one of the motors with stiff rods. In this way there is a lot of piston area of which the sound pressure is emitted to the sides of the chassis. The advantage is a long slender form that could fit under a dash, parcel tray or in a wall. In other words it replaces a deep chassis, wide cone cone woofer with a different format that seems to have great potential for certain applications. But it’s still a woofer and requires a baffle to isolate one sde radiation from the other.

    The other radically NEW concept from the show is the Eminent Technology Rotary subwoofer. This device resembes a tabletop fan with a set of articulating rotary blades that produce sound pressure sort of like it was a pump(at least that is what is claimed.) This device is claimed to have useable output to 1 Hz.

    It’s an interesting concept. And maybe reasonably useful as long as you have an infinite baffle (adjoining room, basement,or attic) in which to mount it. The downside is the 13k price, the adjoiningroom and no rationale testing as of yet.

    Because of my unique listening room and a full set of acoustical testing equipment I may be the only person on earth that could test this device without having to resort to structure adaptations. I plan to pursue this possibility.


    Member
    Nousaine on #2332

    So Steve Witte says that aftermarket sales are down? And that’s a surprise? Not to Alpine I hope. In a World Press Conference in Japan, at the behest of Alpine, in 1996 (arranged by Steve) management …. 1996 …. nearly a decade ago…. said that they saw aftermarket car audio in stagnation and decline and THEY (Alpine management) were betting the future on OEM and, in particular, navigation.

    Indeed at that time I saw products in manufacturing that had names like Volvo on the front. Also in the past several years compnies such as Alpine, Pioneer, Harman (including brands such as Lexicon, JBL, Infinity) … have appeared in OEM systems branded or otherwise.

    For example the 2005 Buick Rendezvous premium audio system houses an unbranded Pioneer sound system. Alpine has produced Ford products both with Alpine branded systems and unbranded systems with Alpine content.

    Onyko, Onyko North American now out of business, was amajor supplier of unbranded audio car speakers. Other brands now seen in OEM cars are THX and Dolby. Suppliers other than Visteon and Delphi are F10, Panasonic, Sonovox and we can never forget Bose. Before they closed Jensen Intl was a supplier to Ford.

    When I started testing afermarket speakers for Car Stereo Review in 1988 the target market was 18-24 year old males. When Road Gear magzine closed its doors in 2005 that was the same market. I begged them (and aftermarket Car Audio) for years to try to retain customers who grew older, got good jobs, acquired families, acquired homes, had children etc. to no avail. And NOW when the demographic snake in the belly has past they “wonder”? why aftermarket has tanked?

    [/quote]


    Member
    dB on #2333

    @nousaine wrote:

    FWIW the Alpine woofer technology is an asdaptation of the Kantor/Tymphany LAT woofer shown at the AES Convention in late 2004.

    It uses 2 moving coil motors at each end of a tubular chassis that has 6 5″ or 7″ cones facing each other of which each alternating cone is attached to one of the motors with stiff rods. In this way there is a lot of piston area of which the sound pressure is emitted to the sides of the chassis. The advantage is a long slender form that could fit under a dash, parcel tray or in a wall. In other words it replaces a deep chassis, wide cone cone woofer with a different format that seems to have great potential for certain applications. But it’s still a woofer and requires a baffle to isolate one sde radiation from the other.

    I met Ken and his crew while they were showing the LAT. Having evaluated the unit – they have quite a way to go before it’s viable – but it is indeed an interesting repackaging sollution. The one I evaluated had a 6mm throw and rough equivelant to a 12″ cone area but very high BL (dual neo motors). They are still fighting stiction and air leaks, but hope to have a sollution that IS viable soon.


    Member
    TeeCee on #2334

    My take on the decline on aftermarket car audio is that these new non DIN sized, practically built in stereos are making it too dificult to replace.

    Also, if companies like Alpine and Pioneer wouldn’t offer decent systems as OEM products, they may be able to sell their good stuff aftermarket.

    Leave the OEM market to the OEMs and more people will want to replace the stock crap. But as long as stock is “OK”, expect less and less people to upgrade to better products.

    My wife’s Scion tC (not where I got my screen name from) has a decent Pioneer system and a sort of decent SAS Bazooka woofer. If she didn’t have that option, I might be able to talk her into a real woofer (I won’t use the term sub in Noussaine’s presence as I’ve already been corrected – when he says sub, he actually means it).


    Member
    dB on #2335

    woof·er (wʊf’ər)
    n.
    A loudspeaker designed to reproduce bass frequencies.

    [From WOOF2.]

    From the same web page:

    A subwoofer is a loudspeaker which reproduces bass frequencies from about 5 Hz to about 90 Hz. Frequencies 16 Hz or lower are more felt than heard. So-called subwoofers which reproduce frequencies from about 35 Hz to about 150 Hz are more properly described as bass modules than true subwoofers. It is difficult for small loudspeakers to reproduce frequencies below 40 Hz, especially above 100 dB, and so it is often advantageous to use a loudspeaker dedicated to this task.

    WOofer Deon:
    Low frequency transducer for full range speaker system – extend to ~~ 28hz.

    SubWOofer Deon:
    Sub Sonic low frequency transducer, takes up where woofer leaves off and extends 1.5 to 2 octaves below. (Where do you think the term Sub comes from in Sub Woofer – stands for Sub Sonic or below the average range of Human Hearing.


    Member
    TeeCee on #2336

    You didn’t take my esponse as a challenge to your definition, did you? I was one of the few people on the thread complying.

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