Dual TD12S for center speaker


  • Member
    mfishmike on #608

    UPDATE: 5-1-2010 Finished pic enclosed. Interested build thread for those thinking of using cheap drivers.. 8)

    John,

    I’ve noticed since my upgrade to the new Denon 5308CI(A) AVR, I’m getting a lot of program material being sent to my center speaker. It has a fantastic processing unit it it. I’ve been told that the center speaker should be able to sum the total of the mains. The new BluRay and new movie releases seem to be presenting more material to the center speaker as well.

    I’m running a pair of Davis Acoustic 6.5 Kevlar woofers (MTM), Morel MDM 55 mid, and HI VI RTII planer ribbon in my center speaker now, but I think it can be improved. Legacy sports a large center speaker with dual 12s in a similar configuration.

    I’m considering using a pair of the TD10S for a MTM design using 4 of the Audience A3 3″ full range speakers for my mid/tweeter line array between them, housed and partitioned in the same cabinet. I have them in a pair I built but I don’t use them. They are quite capable of handling the mids & highs up to 22,000 khz, being a very high quality full range driver.

    What are your thoughts on this idea and how much minimum cabinet space do I need for each TD10s sealed? I do understand it would be a rather wide center speaker. I have a Mitsubishi 65″ TV & stand, so I can make it fit. I do tilt the center speaker up towards the listening area and this works quite well.

    Thanks,
    Mike


    Member
    simon5 on #6574

    If you don’t need the low end because you have a big subwoofer, you could also use TD10M…

    Your idea will work well for sure, but put the tweeter as close to the woofers as possible to prevent lobing issues. What crossover frequency are you expecting ?


    Member
    mfishmike on #6575

    I was looking at the TD10M after posting and thought it might be even better due to the large sub I have. I like the higher fs on that driver. I cross over at 60 to 80 hz.

    One thing that is critical Simon is the enclosure size. I would want twin 10s in the mtm order. What is the minimun size I can get by with this driver X 2. I can go 36″ wide 14″ H x 18″ deep and figured I would end up with about 4 cu ft not counting the 8 liters I would have to box out for the A3 drivers.

    I would probably cross over at about 1000 to 1500 hz.

    Thanks in advance….

    Mike


    Member
    simon5 on #6576

    Well with a 60 Hz to 80 Hz crossover, enclosure size is almost not an issue… about 1 cu.ft per 10 inch would work IMHO… if you have more it’s great.


    Participant
    stryke on #6577

    Hi Mike,

    I’d try to keep the mid/high the same as your left/right speakers if at all possible. Keep the mid/tweeter vertical and cross to the TD10S’s about 250hz or so and you will have good power response throughout the room. Similar to what we did in this center channel here:

    This used a pair of the TD10S’s along with our 6″ and the RAAL ribbon. The LR were the same drivers:

    John


    Member
    mfishmike on #6578

    Very nice setup indeed.

    I can keep the same tweet for timbre matching, but I’d have to try to find similar Scan Speaks for the mids to keep everything timbre matched. I may have a buyer for my A3s so I could possibly place an order soon. John…should I stay with the TD10s, or use the TD10m. I have 4 – 12 TDs in the mains….

    Mike


    Member
    simon5 on #6579

    Well if you already have TD-S in the mains, I’d stay with TD-S in the center channel…


    Member
    mfishmike on #6580

    I sold my Audience A3 speakers, so I’m getting closer to making the plunge for the pair of TD10s, even though I’m out of work.

    I can keep the RT2II tweeter for the timbre matching, but I must also keep my Morel MDM 55 midrange (Extra $225 for the Scan Speak) which won’t get me down to the 250 hz crossover point that John recommends. John and I have my mains crossed over about 750 hz for the Lambdas before handing off to the Scan Speak paralleled mids in the mains. (He designed my main’s crossovers in 2004)

    The specs on the TD10s tells us that this driver is usable up to 2k. I will have to completely redesign my crossover again, so I’m hoping I could get some favorable results by extending the twin TD10 Lambdas in this center speaker up to the 1000 hz crossover point that would work well with the MDM 55, but don’t want to lose any sound quality or performance. The Lambdas will be run in parallel for the 4 ohms. I don’t want to short change myself by simply saying it will work ok if there is a better answer.

    Also, what is the dimensions of this driver? Cutout hole & overall size of the gasket. I need to make sure they will fit.

    Are you running any specials for multiple repeat customers? Hint…..

    Thanks Simon & John….


    Member
    simon5 on #6581

    Well a 1 kHz crossover would work for sure but it’s not “ideal” due to the small 1 kHz resonance I think TD10 have. It could be taken into account in the crossover design on the other hand, or you could EQ it out. That way it becomes usable to the rated 2 kHz.

    I asked John for the TD10 dimensional, I’m waiting for an answer, stay tuned ! 8)

    As for the “frequent” customer rebate, you will have to discuss that with John hehe ! 😆


    Member
    mfishmike on #6582

    Thanks Simon,

    This morning, I thoroughly checked on both the MDM55 & Scan Speak mids I’m using. I could go as low as 500 hz for a xover point with good results with either midrange driver. Would this be an acceptable xover point with this Lambda? It would be interesting to see a response graph for the TD10s if there any to be found.

    Thanks….


    Member
    simon5 on #6583

    500 Hz would be perfect especially if you use 4th order Linkwitz Riley.

    But maybe the resonance wouldn’t bother you, and you could give more breathing room to your MDM55 or Scan-Speak drivers by taking your crossover higher. I guess you will have to experiment.

    I’ll ask John for a curve also. 8)


    Member
    mfishmike on #6584

    Thanks Simon,

    I’ll wait for the cost and specs aso I can see if I can make them fit. I do beleive there is enough room.

    Does John have any built, or what is the turn around time?

    Mike


    Member
    simon5 on #6585

    Turn around time is usually 3 weeks. I don’t think John has any on hand. Everything is built to order.

    He may stock some AV woofers in the future, but that’s mostly it.


    Member
    simon5 on #6586

    John doesn’t have a dimensional for the TD10, he will try to do one today if he has the time.

    As for the frequency response graph, he doesn’t have one and will try to do one next time he builds a TD10S.


    Member
    mfishmike on #6587

    Simon,

    I have decided to go with a pair of the Aurum Cantus 10″ midwoofers that model out very well. They have a 23-3000hz frequency response. With my other drivers, I can get them almost flat all the way through 27 khz after working with the crossover program. For a center speaker application they should be suitable enough and are a decent driver. I’ve been without work at my regular business and need a break in my expenses. I’ll get back with you if they don’t work out for me. Hopefully work will have picked up if I decide to go ahead with the Lambdas and maybe John will have a response graph by then.

    Thanks for all your work and time with the emails.

    Mike

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