Dual AV 12’s + 1200rms


  • Member
    UNIT 6639 on #101

    I want to power 2 AV12’s off of an Orion 1200D at 1 ohm. But if these are 2 ohm DVC’s how will that be possible. I think its not. I do not know if my Orion is stable past 1 ohm.

    What amps are stable to .5 ohms??


    Member
    Admin on #1881

    The AV12’s are dual 2ohm, so your only options would be to wire for 1/2ohm like you said, or for 2ohm. At 2ohm the Orion delivers 725W which would still work out quite well. This would be a difference of only about 2dB of headroom between 1200W and 725W. This would be a virtually inaudible difference in volume but would be much easier on both the amp and the woofers.

    John


    Member
    UNIT 6639 on #1882

    Thanks John. I have read up on the Orion and heard it can run at .5 ohms.So now my next question is do you have any AV12’s on hand ready to be shipped.

    I would love to order 2 and have them around Christmas time.


    Member
    R. Buszka on #1883

    Be sure the area around your amp is well-ventilated if you are going to run it with a 0.5-ohm load. And you may want a power stiffening capacitor if you don’t already have one. These woofers are good enough that you should just get another amp like the one you have and then run one into each woofer.


    Member
    UNIT 6639 on #1884

    So you think each AV12 can handle 1200 watts rms from the Orion. I planned on getting 2 12’s that could handle this amount but could not find anything more affordable than the AV12.

    If I cannot get the AV12’s I will probably opt for the Kove’s from Parts express. They are rated at 800 rms. They are dual 4 ohm, I figured to run both of them off of the 1 Orion until I got the money to order another Orion 1200d then power each woofer with a 1200d.

    I really would prefer the AV12’s though. If I can get those I think they may beable to handle the 1200 watts if I am carefull with the gain and volume knob on the HU.

    I am still waiting to hear from John about the Availability of the AV12. Also what is a stiffening capacitor. I do not have any type of cap in my current install. Thanks for responding.


    Member
    R. Buszka on #1885

    Now, you probably wouldn’t want to push a full power sinewave into them. But for most music stuff, you’d probably be good to go with 1200 watts into each AV12. A lot of car audio amps can’t put out their full rated power for a long period anyway. There’s no uniform standard on how amplifiers are rated (and even the definition of RMS can vary with some creative measuring technique and the addition of some fine print), so it’s nearly impossible to tell. I had a friend pushing fully 2x the RMS power into his 10″ MA Audio subs and they never complained. He primarily played music, not boom tracks. You might want to be using a sealed box for this, though, no larger than a cubic foot per driver. While we probably won’t kill the drivers thermally this way, they might bottom out. Having real headroom ready to go is important on subs that are used for music. If you just want a boom car (booom booooom boooooooooom) it might not be such a good idea to do dual amps, and then you’d just do the single amp at .5 ohms. It would really be selling these drivers short just to do a boom car with them, though, because in the home theater and hi-fi world, these AV series drivers are known as some of the cleanest, most musical-sounding sub drivers available. The only thing keeping these drivers from huge success in the DIY world is that DIYers tend to try to spend as little as possible on their projects, and the relatively high cost of admission scared the hobbyists away, but if you’re not scared of the relatively high price (in the car audio world, it’s actually quite low), these sub drivers still deliver performance of a subwoofer driver 1.5-2x the price. This is tremendous bang for the buck, and those DIY hobbyist people who went with cheaper drivers do not know what they are missing.


    Member
    Admin on #1886

    I wouldn’t say you need to try to put 1200W into each driver. How much power it will take to reach full excursion all depends on what kind of enclosure you’re putting them in. If the amp is stable to 1/2 ohm then that should be plenty of power, although I don’t see mention of that anywhere on their website. That would likely void the warranty. Every time you cut your impedance in half you also cut the damping factor in half. I’d try it first with the drivers wired up for 2ohm and see how it sounds.

    I need to get a batch of AV woofers done again. I currently have parts for 40 drivers and have about 20+ ordered already. I plan to get them built and ship them by the end of the week. IF you want one right away you should probably get your order in quickly to make sure you get some of the current stock.

    John


    Member
    R. Buszka on #1887

    Yes, so buy your drivers now. Then you can experiment with amps and wiring once you have the drivers.

    The idea of putting that much power into the AV12’s would only be a good idea if you use music as the program material. And there is a certain amount of risk involved – but only if you’re irresponsible in applying the power. You’d need to recognize that the extra power is only there for musical headroom, and 1200W into one driver for a long period (like the bass in Late Nite Tip) is enough to blow it if you have the gain on the amp cranked all the way up. Apparently John is going to keep parts in stock to re-cone the AV series woofers with the 2″ voice coil (the current ones) long into the future, so if you experience the “error” part of trial-and-error, you’re not up a creek.

    Don’t go with the Kove drivers – they are okay for the “boom car” thing but they sound very messy and sloppy, from all reports. You won’t like listening to them, though they probably will wake the neighborhood.


    Member
    UNIT 6639 on #1888

    I am not trying in any way to make a boom car. I prefer all my bass to stay in my car just for me 😀 . I do however want my subs to be loud.

    I was planning on porting them at some point but would probably start them out sealed. My current install is an MTX 801D powering an Ascendent Audio Avalanche 15″ ported in a 3 cubes box tuned to 38.

    I am running my Amp at 1 ohm although it is not stable due to the fact that my sub only came in a DVC 2ohm configuration and I already had the amp before getting the sub.

    My 15 is pretty loud as it is, but space is an issue. 2 sealed 12’s would take up less space in my Altima’s trunk. I think I will go ahead and get the AV12’s instead of the the Kove’s.

    Besides I prefer subs that can be used for both applications, HT/Mobile. When I replace my Avalanche I can bring it inside and hook it up to my HT.

    If I order say on Friday how soon would they ship.

    I waited 2 months for my last sub and wonder how long it will take for you(John) to start shipping. Do you except Western Union MO’s as that would be my prefered method of payment.


    Member
    UNIT 6639 on #1889

    @R. Buszka wrote:

    Now, you probably wouldn’t want to push a full power sinewave into them. But for most music stuff, you’d probably be good to go with 1200 watts into each AV12. A lot of car audio amps can’t put out their full rated power for a long period anyway. There’s no uniform standard on how amplifiers are rated (and even the definition of RMS can vary with some creative measuring technique and the addition of some fine print), so it’s nearly impossible to tell. I had a friend pushing fully 2x the RMS power into his 10″ MA Audio subs and they never complained. He primarily played music, not boom tracks. You might want to be using a sealed box for this, though, no larger than a cubic foot per driver. While we probably won’t kill the drivers thermally this way, they might bottom out. Having real headroom ready to go is important on subs that are used for music. If you just want a boom car (booom booooom boooooooooom) it might not be such a good idea to do dual amps, and then you’d just do the single amp at .5 ohms. It would really be selling these drivers short just to do a boom car with them, though, because in the home theater and hi-fi world, these AV series drivers are known as some of the cleanest, most musical-sounding sub drivers available. The only thing keeping these drivers from huge success in the DIY world is that DIYers tend to try to spend as little as possible on their projects, and the relatively high cost of admission scared the hobbyists away, but if you’re not scared of the relatively high price (in the car audio world, it’s actually quite low), these sub drivers still deliver performance of a subwoofer driver 1.5-2x the price. This is tremendous bang for the buck, and those DIY hobbyist people who went with cheaper drivers do not know what they are missing.

    I only listen to music but do at times listen to boom music when I feel in a boomy sort of mood. Lil John, Lil Wayne, Mike Jones and that sort of thing. Still have not heard the legendary Late Night Tip song though.

    I will probably stick with the 1 Orion and see how I like them off of that before trying to give them 1200 watts each. I do plan on making a boom car in the future but I will wait until I get a sutible SUV type vehicle (Blazer) for that.

    And who said these subs were expensive. At $150 these things are a steal. If they are as good as some claim I think John is selling hisself short. I am not complaining though John so do not raise the price back up yet. 😆

    Thanks guys for responding. I am going to go see about ordering.


    Member
    R. Buszka on #1890

    I think the price is going to stay there for those last 40 AV-series woofers, until the new ones come out with the bigger voice coil and new motor design. The changes are not earth-shattering, but they will be improvements on an already-stellar performer. The price will probably go back up to the original $175/$205 for the 12″ and 15″ respectively once those are ready. If you want to know what I think personally, I’d say go ahead and take the lower price and get the current generation AV12s. Perhaps by the time you’re ready to build your “boom car”, the HE series woofers will be ready. From the talk that’s already circulated about those, you will certainly want one of the Orion amps for each woofer in that case.

    The thing that’s really spectacular about the AE Speakers product offering, in my opinion, is that the company got its start as a DIY hobbyist company, so in keeping with tradition (despite their growing car audio customer base), the specs they offer and the approach they take to their products is refreshingly no-BS. That aluminum cone is great-looking but it’s also very functional as well. That no-marketing-BS treatment and performance-driven design really speaks to the company’s integrity.

    I am the king of the run-on sentence.

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