Any update dual TD10M/NeoPro5i monitors?


  • Member
    Johnl on #3233

    Hey John,

    Have you heard of anyone using that TD10M on an OB? It would probably match up pretty well with a couple Dipole 15s on the bottom, pick your favorite HE tweeter. What do you think?

    John


    Member
    zamboniman on #3234

    Any update or progress on these monitors?


    Member
    Nasty N8 on #3235

    Talked to John the other day and he said he had some simple crossovers built just waiting for a nice day to do some testing. I am sure these are going to be awesome and John keeps telling me they will satisfy my needs. But I just can not for some reason get around wanting a 3way with a solid mid bass driver section.

    Nate


    Member
    Nasty N8 on #3236

    Oh also waiting on a pair of AV15 drivers and 4 18″ PR for some serious bass (boxes are being built now John 😉 )… and need to decide on the mains to go along with them.

    Nate


    Member
    zamboniman on #3237

    somehow I think having dual td10m’s will be a “solid” midbass section :mrgreen:


    Member
    Nasty N8 on #3238

    Ya I know but just something about a 12x doing just midbass duty and a dedicated midrange driver going up a little higher and relieving the ribbon of some of the lower range.

    Nate


    Member
    JOHN on #3239

    @Nasty N8 wrote:

    Oh also waiting on a pair of AV15 drivers and 4 18″ PR for some serious bass (boxes are being built now John 😉 )… and need to decide on the mains to go along with them.

    Nate

    Any pictures yet 8)


    Participant
    stryke on #3240

    Well, in doing the design I did some measuring to see the effects of the port next to the ribbon. The results were somewhat as I expected. My original attempt was to keep the face size down, although it is looking to not be possible now. I figured I could make up for any diffraction from the ports with felt/foam at the edges of the tweeters. the results weren’t as I hoped.

    This graph shows the comparison with different configurations with the mic at 6″ from the tweeter. The yellow curve is with the ports blocked and no felt/foam used. The light blue is with the felt and ports blocked. The dark blue is with the ports open. You can see that with the ports open we get all kinds of bumpiness in the 2-4KHZ region that isn’t there in the other graph.

    This closeup more accurately shows this. `Moving the ports to the top and bottom of the woofers will no longer have these effects. The cabinet essentially gets taller, and more shallow. Some have asked for a more shallow cabinet anyway as it will protrude less from the wall.

    This however doesn’t affect much in the Xover region as the measurements were taken with the ports blocked for the purposes of the Xover design. Other things to note. The bump at 9KHz or so is easily removed with a notch filter. In reality at the 2m distance I designed the xover at, the second bump above it at about 16KHz is equal in magnitude to the 9KHz bump with only a 3dB dip between. Things change at 2m vs the 6″ mic distance because there is no interaction from the semi “waveguide” that the faceplate of the tweeter provides at the close distance. It was actually quite simple to tackle the top end rise with just an inductor in parallel

    Xover and curves are coming shortly.

    John


    Participant
    stryke on #3241

    @johnl wrote:

    Hey John,

    Have you heard of anyone using that TD10M on an OB? It would probably match up pretty well with a couple Dipole 15s on the bottom, pick your favorite HE tweeter. What do you think?

    John

    In all reality the TD15M has better high frequency extension than theTD10M. Not that the TD10M is bad at all, but the 15″ due to the cone profile is just very smooth upwards of 4KHz. The following is a measurement from a pair of TD15M’s with a 40×60 horn between them.

    The sharp rolloff with dips at 5K and 10K are due greatly to the spacing between drivers and comb effects. I’ll try to get some measurements of a single TD15M, 12M, and 10M all on axis. If you’re going to use the Dipole 15’s for the bottom end, I’d go with the TD15M above as well.

    John


    Participant
    stryke on #3242

    @Nasty N8 wrote:

    Oh also waiting on a pair of AV15 drivers and 4 18″ PR for some serious bass (boxes are being built now John 😉 )… and need to decide on the mains to go along with them.

    Nate

    Just sent you the email finally. You should have a pic of one of the drivers and a simulation of the driver in the cabinet.

    John


    Participant
    stryke on #3243

    One final update for the night before I head out. Here is the simulated response from the initial Xover.

    I had to time gate things so don’t pay much attention to what’s going on under 800hz or so. The xover region is the main part to look at. In this one I did keep the curve of the ports open, which from above you can see creates all the smaller erratic bumpiness throughout that region. The green curve is with the tweeter polarity reversed to verify phase is properly aligned. The top end could use a little work yet, but this is a good basic start. You’re looking at maybe $25-30 in components per side as it i is currently designed.

    I will post the schematic tomorrow for those who are interested in getting going on these right away. Then will post an updated xover as time goes on. I need it a little warmer out yet before I start doing work outside. 🙂 I’ll be able to get more complete testing, distortion measurements, SPL levels, etc. If anyone is interested in hearing these in the current state, you’re welcome to call and setup a time to come by.

    John


    Member
    looneybomber on #3244

    In your last picture, was that with, or without the notch filter?

    In a previous post I asked about using different baffles, particularly one without the ports next to the tweeter. Because you’re getting the interactions that you are, are you going to keep tinkering with that baffle or scrap the tweeter flanking port design and move them to the top/bottom/rear?

    Lastly, I like the dual TD15m idea. Both the 5i and dual 15m’s should have the same sensitvity with 2.83v’s…but that introduces beaming (even more so than with the 10’s). Is there a formula to figure out at what frequency beaming starts in relation to driver diameter? I know it happens lower down the bigger you get, but there has to be a way of predicting it, or does the hyperbolic curve of the 15m’s cone help pervent it more so than a strait cone would?

    I may have to give you a call tomorrow.


    Participant
    stryke on #3245

    @looneybomber wrote:

    In your last picture, was that with, or without the notch filter?

    In a previous post I asked about using different baffles, particularly one without the ports next to the tweeter. Because you’re getting the interactions that you are, are you going to keep tinkering with that baffle or scrap the tweeter flanking port design and move them to the top/bottom/rear?

    Lastly, I like the dual TD15m idea. Both the 5i and dual 15m’s should have the same sensitvity with 2.83v’s…but that introduces beaming (even more so than with the 10’s). Is there a formula to figure out at what frequency beaming starts in relation to driver diameter? I know it happens lower down the bigger you get, but there has to be a way of predicting it, or does the hyperbolic curve of the 15m’s cone help pervent it more so than a strait cone would?

    I may have to give you a call tomorrow.

    I’m actually going to plan on the taller cabinet with ports above and below the 10″ drivers. This makes for a slightly taller cabinet, but then it doesnt’ need to be as deep either. It gets more reasonable to mount this in some kind of a decorative column on the wall then as well. I had hoped with the sort of horn shape to the faceplate the diffraction issues wouldn’t be so bad, but I was wrong.

    The pair of TD15M’s really are overkill for this. The sensitivity seems to be a little less on the ribbon than specified. I did no level matching at all to pull the tweeter down. What you see is what it was. Level is nearly perfect with the pair of 10″ drivers. The 10’s also have thermally and displacement limited output that is a good 6dB or more higher than the ribbon as long as they are crossed above 50Hz to a subwoofer. I could make 16ohm version of the 15″ so a pair would match pretty closely the ribbon, but at that point you’re much better looking at the BMS coax compression driver as in this cabinet here:

    A pair of those crossed over at 80hz to a bank of subwoofers will fill a 1000+ person venue quite well. They reached levels of 118dB or so at a mix position 40-50ft from the stage. They would be appropriate for real 300+ seat movie theaters.

    John


    Member
    looneybomber on #3246

    I actually woke up thinking about this. I mixed up my sensitivities between the td12m and td15m so I should have been asking about the 12m’s instead. However, seeing that the 5i isn’t performing as spec’d, it’s a moot inquiry. I’m going to be sitting about 4m away and crossing them over at 60hz, dual 10’s should suit me just fine.


    Member
    Nasty N8 on #3247

    Ya think I may order some of these as soon as my subs are complete. Tempting with the sale John is running. unless he is planning a smoken package deal on these anyway 😉 😉 😀

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 65 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.